Brain-Off, Mouth Open: Tom Grover Misses the Point

Whenever a self-proclaimed libertarian takes the side of government over its citizens, you can bet that something sinister is underway.   I can’t think of a more appropriate way to describe Tom Grover’s recent attempt of political opinionating in his piece, “Rep. Carl Wimmer scandal isn’t about Rick Koerber, it’s about the integrity of our justice system.”  Mr. Grover essentially argues three points, 1) that Wimmer has betrayed the interests of justice and should resign for “intimidating” regulators, 2) that lawmakers should learn a lesson and steer clear of similar conduct, and 3) that Utahans should let regulators like Francine Giani alone while they do ‘their job.’

The short sighted and pious platitudes of Mr. Grover, a self-proclaimed Utah libertarian, demonstrate an alarming trend, exerting a surprisingly Herculean pressure, in modern politics.  Namely, in our current era, posturing and hasty generalizations serve as a regular substitutes for critical thinking and rational conclusions.  In this case, Mr. Grover’s brain-off, mouth open response to the so-called “Carl Wimmer Scandal” should be seen by citizens for precisely what it is—short sighted, and dangerously naïve.


The critical matter at issue in this story, and similarly at issue in our contemporary political culture, is one that ‘posture first, think later’ politicos like Tom keep missing.  The greatest threat to the individual liberty of free citizens does NOT come from private citizens (regardless of what they stand accused), it comes directly from government.

All contemporary issues notwithstanding the greatest danger facing free citizens today is unaccountable, overzealous, and unchecked government.  Very often, this threat takes the form of little known bureaucracy and even less known bureaucrats who freely trample the rights of citizens with little to no scrutiny or accountability.

Something that seems to escape the sporadic mental awareness of pundits like Grover, when contemplating political realities, is that business owners and entrepreneurs are citizens too.  Of course, someone who self-identifies as a libertarian knows this in theory, but in practice, folks like Tom seem to have trouble venturing beyond their own presumptions to see just exactly what their ideas mean when translated into the real world.

Take one simple example, where Mr. Grover remarks,

“If Mr. Koerber is a victim, he can prove it in court.  Evidence obtained against him illegally or coercively will be excluded.  Other abuses can be addressed in civil court.  Incidentally, Mr. Koerber was indicted after U.S. Attorney for Utah Bret Tolman conducted his own separate investigation.”

Here, Mr. Grover clearly and openly suggests that the right thing is for government to be allowed to do whatever it wants, and if it oversteps or does wrong, then those who are “victimized” can seek to have their day in civil court.  How dumb does this idea suggest citizens are?  Since when was this the position of a libertarian?  How is this an idea rooted in justice, a concept Mr. Grover seems to approve of, at least rhetorically?  You see, to the brain-off crowd, it might not be clear, but to the rest of us—we can see exactly what the consequences are of these not-so-libertarian ideas advanced by Mr. Grover. To illustrate, look at one simple quote from Mr. Grover’s story.  It contains only four sentences, but they speak volumes about what’s really being advocated.

#1 – “If Mr. Koerber is a victim, he can prove it in court.”

While the distinction will serve little purpose to most, it is worth noting that I’ve never claimed to be a “victim.”  What I have claimed is that the government has been engaged in wrongdoing, in illegal behavior, and in abusive violations of its citizens’ individual, civil rights.

>>>See “Federal Indictment Doesn’t Discourage Rick Koerber from Lashing Out at State Investigators,” by Fields Moseley (KUTV, Utah Channel 2 News)
>>>See “Rick Koerber Responds to Indictment,” by Franklin Squires (Official Company Website)

Besides the impact on my family and me, the actions of bureaucrat Giani and her colleagues have cost hundreds of Utahans their honest, well paying jobs.  In addition, the State action she oversaw has played a direct role in Utah citizens losing hundreds of millions of dollars.  So, if you’re going to choose to see ‘victims’ in this context, don’t forget to take a full measure.

Now, getting to the point more directly, let us think through what Mr. Grover is also suggesting.  Anyone aggrieved by suspected corruption, abuse, or malfeasance on the part of government officials, employees, or agents should just calm down, wait until the damage is fully done and then seek their day in court.  This would be like a citizen never being able to call the police when a crime is in progress, instead having as the only remedy, waiting until the commission of a crime is all over and then sue the criminals in civil court.

Of course, the implication of Mr. Grover’s idea is absurd when applied in such a common context (such as police officers and typical criminals), but when Mr. Grover applies it to government regulators and small business owners, the same idea passes for legitimate opinion.  Never mind that such a day in court is not permitted, in most circumstances, without first having to obtain permission from the government–to bring suit against a government agency.  Never mind that paying for such a day in court is, at a minimum, a several hundred thousand dollar venture (a sum much more difficult to muster after the government has had its way to begin with.)  Oh, and never mind that some damage and some wrongs committed cannot be undone by winning a victory in civil court (even if that victory includes a large money settlement).

It’s curious to me, how someone like Mr. Grover, evidently now attending law school (just what the world needs is another brain-off lawyer) can claim to love liberty while his own ideas self-evidently loathe the idea.  Would Mr. Grover, I wonder, hold the same ideas if it was him or his family that was being deprived of liberty without trial, being slandered and defamed by government employees working outside the law; or, if it was his livelihood being destroyed by someone like Francine Giani who actually has no legal qualifications whatsoever and yet holds virtually unchecked bureaucratic autonomy to shut down any small business or entrepreneur she whimsically sees fit?

Now, lest the reader think that by disagreeing with my characterization of Ms. Giani and her powers, you’ve escaped the logic of my conclusion – remember – Mr. Grover’s idea is that, no matter what has happened, no matter what wrong has been or might have been perpetuated by the government, the real remedy is to seek redress in civil court, after the fact.  Government officials, I guess in Mr. Grover’s views, are immune from criminal prosecution for wrongdoing–so long as the accusations originate from private citizens.

Note: This is of course, unless a free citizen, with no complaints or charges filed and no formal accusations made of any kind, and under no arrest, has contacted the government official in question and requested legitimate assistance in getting fair treatment from a government agency.  In this case, and this case only, it appears, Mr. Grover supports added scrutiny and accountability

Unfortunately, many of his readers will not easily see the obvious evil in his kind of juvenile pontificating.  Suggesting that a citizen’s only right consists of enduring abuse by the government only later hoping for a victory in civil court, is a political philosophy shared by the likes of Saddam, Chavez, Stalin, Mussolini, and in the Founder’s day, King George.

“#2 – Evidence obtained against him illegally or coercively will be excluded.”

It’s obvious that Mr. Gover hasn’t thought this one through.  First, you have to ask, who is it that will exclude such evidence?  You see, Ms. Giani has large, virtually unchecked latitude in bringing sanctions, administrative orders, etc., without any outside interference.

Second, the independent legislative audit (which I understand is probably too much reading, being over forty printed pages, to be expected of someone like Mr. Grover and his political likenesses who also pass sweeping legislation without so much as reading it) concluded that Ms. Giani’s department used illegally obtained evidence to exert extrajudicial pressure and coercion on small business owners.

Third, Mr. Grover seems to either forget or be unaware that grand juriess are enabled in almost all circumstances to hear and consider almost any such evidence in order to obtain an indictment.

Finally, the point being missed here is that the sum of my complaints against the government—and to the point of Mr. Grover’s essay, of Mr. Wimmer’s complaints against Giani—has not been that they have obtained evidence illegally (though they have) or that they’ve attempted coercion (though they have) but, the most substantive complaint has always been that the government is using extra-legal, and extra-judicial means of exacting punishment without any due process of the law and without regard to the rights of the citizens involved.

“#3 – Other abuses can be addressed in civil court.”

This is always the argument of the brain-off crowd when seeking to excuse their own cowardice.  But, just how is it that a reputation can be regained in court?  How is it that a company destroyed unjustly by government bureaucrats, (that before hand had an excellent reputation, had paid all its bills, and had earned substantial assets in excess of liabilities) can be restored through civil court?

How is it that personal relationships destroyed by the lies and misinformation of the government and its agents can magically be remedied or repaired in civil court, after the fact?  You see, the underlying idea behind Mr. Grover’s argument is that all wrongs boil down to money; money, of course, that can be repaid to any supposed victim if a civil jury decides in your favor.  At the same time, people making this kind of argument are the first to point out, in their stiff-necked and boastful dignity, that money is not what life is all about.  If only Mr. Grover and his equivalents were as interested in measuring the real costs of tyranny in the currency of personal liberty.

“#4 – Incidentally, Mr. Koerber was indicted after U.S. Attorney for Utah Bret Tolman conducted his own separate investigation.”

I started out by warning that Mr. Grover’s ideas are dangerous and naïve.  I did so in the interest of those who might be tempted to believe him.  Here is a perfect example of how such danger and naivety plays out.  It is absolutely clear that Mr. Tolman’s office did not conduct it’s “own separate investigation.”  While language to that effect has been thrown around, the clear evidence is quite the opposite.  At the press conference, held by Mr. Tolman (a federal official), he invited Ms. Giani (a state official) to speak to the media about her involvement.  During her remarks she claimed ultimate credit and victory for the federal indictment and even thanked the Utah governor for sticking behind her.   Mr. Tolman remarked that the investigation had started by a referral from Ms. Giani and would continue to be carried out in partnership with the Utah Department of Commerce.  Yes, it can be argued, that the federal government employed an IRS agent and an FBI agent to interview and gather evidence.  However, the theory behind the charges in the indictment, and the supporting evidence so far detailed by the government, shows unmistakably that it was the State of Utah’s investigation that drove this case to federal indictment.

One last thing about this whole, “incidentally” remark by Mr. Grover.  Does it matter?  Does it even matter if the person who is the subject of such an investigation is guilty (which I am not, by the way)?  Meaning, have we reached a point in society where misdeeds, abuse, and even criminal conduct by government officials and agents is tolerable and/or excused so long as some other agency “ratifies” the action by bringing charges?  Or, to put the matter even more simply, Mr. Grover is suggesting that from this point forward in America, all the misdeeds and corruption on the part of government should be excused so long as they are going after a legitimate target.

Think about this.  This kind of “ends justify the means” argument is the same argument advanced by every tyrant in history.  Hitler, Stalin, and today’s Kim Jong-il, Castro, and Chavez all justify the ugliness and brutality of their methods by holding up their supposedly righteous goals.  Remember, they all think they are “good guys” using government to “promote the greater good.”  While it may not be obvious to Mr. Grover and those of his political ilk, this is the same behavior for which he is offering an outright apology/defense.

I can’t help but wonder if and when other liberty loving citizens will get sick enough about this kind of wickedness being disguised as reasoned political opinion that folks like Mr. Grover might actually have to start answering for such embarrassing and disgustingly vulgar expressions.  Wouldn’t it be interesting if someone like Mr. Grover was actually expected to defend the implications of his political ideas?

Now, let’s bring this whole thing to the central point.  You see, no one has to defend me or my supposed business dealings, in order to defend the role played by Carl Wimmer in this whole affair.  Rep. Wimmer did not seek to have Ms. Giani fired because she was investigating me – this is a red herring – thrown out by the lazy and insincere.  Carl’s insistence that she be fired was based upon her behavior, her disregard for the law, her ineffective leadership (remember her appointee Wayne Klein resigned to soften the potential blow to Ms. Giani and her department when the results of the audit were released) and her abusive tactics.

It should be noted that it was not my case alone that brought Carl to this position and it was not my case alone that led to the audit.

For my case, it now looks like the allegations will be settled in a courtroom.  However, honest and concerned citizens should be asking why Ms. Giani’s behavior continually gets a pass by lawmakers, by the Governor, and even by the media.  Why hasn’t a single source in the established media started asking questions of Ms. Giani?   Remember, it was not me, my case, or Carl Wimmer who documented the grievous miscarriages of justice being carried out by Ms. Giani’s department.  Completely independent of my case, it was audit manager Tim Osterstock, Audit Supervisor Susan Verhoef and the leadership of the legislature that uncovered this disturbing pattern.  Everything I’ve released to the public (including audio tapes clearly documenting criminal and felonious behavior by Ms. Giani’s staff) has been in addition to the audit’s published findings.  Yet, the government has not sought to hold Ms. Giani and her minions accountable to any substantial degree.  No criminal investigation or civil investigation have been launched and the media continues to ignore this reality.  What is the purpose of conducting such audits of government agencies if the findings are just getting swept under the rug?

Ms. Giani, thanks to Mr. Grover and other lazy-minded pontificators and pseudo journalists, continues to hide her abuse and incompetence by stoking the flames of my case while playing the victim herself of Wimmer, and Shurtleff and who knows who else.

I find it mildly hilarious that when it was revealed in the media this past week that one of her own employees retaliated against Mr .Wimmer, a duly elected lawmaker, for asking around about allegations of the Department’s alleged abuse (her employee–a paid bureaucrat—sent an email to Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff lying about Wimmer’s motives and the nature of his relationship with me) that nothing more is said about it, but Wimmer is still painted as the bad guy, doing his friend a favor.  Since when were elected Representatives made off limits when a private citizen elect to exercise their constitutional right to petition their government for redress?

I’ll admit Francine makes a better poster child for victimhood than I do.  Her entire demeanor and public posture is that of a person being unfairly criticized and she is just out for vindication.  Never mind that several lawmakers (though not many courageous enough to speak out now in this climate) have done the same thing as Wimmer.  Never mind that she has been directly implicated in the wrongdoing discovered by the performance audit.  Never mind that her employees (even ones she has publicly defended) can easily be demonstrated to have been engaged in malicious behavior.  She’s building nothing, and she’s standing for no principle–but how dare an elected Representative ask the Governors to hold one of his appointees accountable.

Ironically, those in government who fancy themselves defenders of freedom haven’t shown themselves brave enough to actually hold her to the same standard as the rest of  Utah’s private citizens.  Have we forgotten that government employees are first and foremost citizens like the rest of us?  This whole situation reminds me of the Utah judge not long ago who was recorded, saying in her courtroom to a citizen addressing the court, “you and I are not equal, I am a judge.”

When Mr. Grover suggests that Rep. Wimmer betrayed the interests of justice and should resign for intimidating regulators, he ignores the undisputed fact that the now public legislative audit is sufficient grounds for anyone, including an individual legislator, to make such demands–regardless of my case.

In addition, to suggest that lawmakers should learn a lesson and steer clear of conduct similar to Wimmer’s is to suggest that executive branch employees and bureaucrats should not have to fear the check and balance oversight rightly provided by the legislature.  Never mind that the legislature has statutory authority to do just that.  I wonder, if left to Mr. Grover, who should be in charge of holding folks like Ms. Giani accountable.  Oh, yea, the courts–civilly, after the fact.  How just.

Think this one through.  The bureaucrats in this present case work for the executive branch of Utah government.  Their boss is ultimately, Utah Governor Jon Huntsman, Jr.  He has demonstrated, directly and indirectly no interest and/or ability to oversee the abuses documented in the audit.  He’s actually never publicly expressed an opinion on the audit, its findings, or the consequences of such abusive behavior being carried by his branch of government, under his watch.  Does no one in the Utah media even have a curiosity about this major blunder?

What Mr. Grover is suggesting is that the legislature, even in the actions of its individual members, has no place putting pressure (even as a check against abuse) on the executive branch of government.  He tries to make the argument that Rep. Wimmer was simply trying to protect “one of his cronies” but the argument is laughable to anyone interested in the facts.  Consider the following.

1) Carl never tried to interfere with the investigation itself.

2) In addition to the performance audit, several other legislators were interested in the very same outcome, and that had nothing to do with me or the investigation of my companies.

3) The pressure he exerted by simply asking questions initially brought a Giani subordinate, the now resigned Director Wayne Klein, to admit that he was choosing his course of action against me—not based upon the facts or the law—but in his own words, because “[I had] legislators out there trying to cut [their] powers.”   Heaven forbid a legislator seeking to limit the power of a bureaucrat.  For this alone Wimmer should be hung, I’m sure.

3) Perhaps most importantly, after several years, Ms. Giani was unsuccessful in bringing any action against me civilly or criminally.  Don’t forget, her chief investigator in my case and the head of enforcement for the investigation, just one month prior to Ms. Giani turning the case over to the Feds, suggested to me, to her and to the AGs office that there “was no evidence” sufficient to bring charges of any wrong doing against me.  Any interested party can hear one of his several statements, in his own voice, concluding as much.

Has there been any news coverage of this?  If there was evidence that I should have been charged by the State of Utah, why did Ms. Giani neglect to produce the evidence when asked by the Utah Attorney General’s office in November / December of 2007?

In his piece, Mr. Grover writes,

“This is about more than Rep. Wimmer and Rick Koerber.  It’s about the integrity of our justice system. Each of us counts on blind justice to protect us. What kind of state do you want to live in? One where accusations of fraud are adjudicated on the merits in court?”

Agreed, Mr. Grover, it is about more than Carl Wimmer or Rick Koerber.  Agreed, it is about the integrity of our justice system.  Agreed, that Utahans should be asking themselves what kind of state they want to live in.  Agreed, that accusations of fraud should be adjudicated on the merits in court.  Have you considered reading the audit results of the Utah Division of Securities?  What would the audit results show, heaven forbid, if the legislature undertook an audit of all divisions in the Department of Commerce?

After five years, why didn’t the state of Utah bring any single action against me in any court?  Because of Wimmer and the Attorney General?  The facts are not on the side of those who glibly make this suggestion.  Ask Ms. Giani why she didn’t bring any evidence to the Utah Attorney General’s office suggesting wrongdoing.  Why didn’t she bring administrative actions (she could do that by statute without involving the Attorney General’s office)?  Why didn’t she ask a county or district prosecutor to bring such charges?  She’s done that in other cases.  Shouldn’t the questions, at least, be asked?

Even if there were reasons to bring charges against me, and none were brought, how is this a greater threat to the “integrity of the Justice System” than lying officials, or bureaucrats over-stepping the law and committing criminal violations thereof in pursuit of their case?

There used to be a time in America (between approximately 1776 and about 1930) that the basic philosophy of our justice system was “its better to let a potentially guilty man go free than to convict innocent men by overzealous government.”  Instead, today, the philosophy being advocated by Mr. Grover is that somehow I am a greater threat to justice than rogue government.  This is beyond reason.  It is insanity.

To argue that Utahans should let regulators like Francine Giani alone while they do ‘their job’ is to suggest that citizens should not have elected representatives at all (at least not Representatives who can take their interests into account in all matter of government.)

If Carl Wimmer was wrong to “represent” the interests of fairness and justice “for all citizens” in Utah and it is indeed the right thing to let government (Francine Giani or anyone else) escape accountability for their actions except after the fact – and perhaps then only in civil court – America has died.

Long after my case is over, come what may, Mr. Libertarian, we will still be dealing with a Department of Commerce that has only become emboldened since having their conduct publicly exposed, with little or no consequence, including:  1-Misleading the public, 2-Misstating the law to citizens, 3-Arbitrary enforcement of the law, 4-Conflicts of interest, 5-Document fraud, 6-Contempt or lack of respect for court rulings pertaining to innocent parties, 7-Coercive settlement tactics,  8-Knowingly making false statements during official proceedings, 9-Failure to remain impartial, and 10-Ongoing problems after the resignation of former Director Wayne Klein.”

You point the finger at people like Representative Wimmer, but the truth of the matter Tom, is that you are the one posturing for government—not its citizens. While not everyone sees it, those who are awake and thinking, do in fact see the consequence of your ideas, and they are disgusting, repugnant, and indicative of something far more sinister than the object of your story.  The intellectual laziness, quickness to judge, and slowness to see past the whim-of-the-day media spin evidenced by your piece is something much more to be feared than a legislator asking for a bureaucrats head.

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Comments

10 Responses to “Brain-Off, Mouth Open: Tom Grover Misses the Point”
  1. Andy says:

    I heart government. Yay.

  2. Ammon says:

    Here is another example of brain-off, mouth open (or at least keyboard busy.)

    http://www.lonsberry.com/writings.cfm?story=2640&go=4

    I don’t mean to bring you down with negativity, or anything. I just read this and thought you would get a good chuckle out of someone else pontificating with their brain off.

  3. Trent says:

    Hi Rick. I appreciate all that you are doing in fighting the good battle and am grateful for the example you’re setting in working so diligently in trying to hold the ninnies in government accountable for their actions. Where would I go to find the full audit that was done on the Utah State Department of Commerce as mentioned in the post above?

    Thank you,

    Trent Jessee

  4. The Piker says:

    Grover is just running interference for his “buddy” Shurtleff. Wimmer has been caught in some inconsistencies so Grover is using this to detract attention away from Shurtleff. It’s obvious from his article he has not idea how the Dept of Commernce works and to whom they are accountable. It’s probably premature to be alleging some type of gov-LE-agency scandal, but if you are (as Grover does) Shurtleff would necessarily be worth more than a mere mention. Given his career path, I suppose it’s much easier to direct the outrage at a legislator who is in no position give you a job like the A.G.

    The truth is that brain off does not begin to describe Grover. His favorite pastime is to join the dogpile of any scandal with his half-baked facts, analysis and pious sermons. I don’t know anyone who takes him seriously. Furthermore he is incredibly thin-skinned. I wrote a response to his article and he had it taken down. He’s great at dishing it out, but a coward when it comes to taking it.

    Two points by the way:
    1. Grover is no longer a libertarian. He’s a pro-illegal immigration, pro-gay marriage, new age/moderate Republican. Shocking isn’t it?

    2. The picture you have of him on this article’s header must be 10 years old. He’s now a disheveled, fat, slob.

  5. Rob Miller says:

    Tom’s article had nothing to do with AG Shurtleff. That’s just silly. Also, the photo you are talking about is of Rep. Carl Wimmer.

    Tom Grover is a fair minded, decent human being, unlike the unethical Piker who has doesn’t have a clue who Tom Grover is. BTW, Tom doesn’t decide what comments stay or go on KVNU’s blog, the station employees do.

    Just wondering, any new indictments today?

  6. Tom M says:

    You’ve got to be kidding – redress in today’s courts??? Not too likely anymore. Look who is overseeing “justice” in Utah – General Shurtleff for starters, and other prosecutors who despise our Constitution and justice as our courts once defended it (according to their actions, not their hollow words).

    Take this little justice integrity test. Ask any prosecutor in Utah (or elsewhere) including General Shurtleff (commander in chief) why they refuse to denounce and pursue the great flood of criminal activity in the mode of false abuse and false rape allegations. Yes, it’s huge. We can’t find one of them who can pass this most simple and basic of integrity litmus tests. We can’t find one who will both denounce and pursue it to its ends.

    Some responses from the field (prosecutor and AG offices) go as follows: “What false abuse and rape allegations, where???” The deluge of of false rape and especially false abuse allegations is very, very well documented. This includes that about 50% of rape allegations are eventually admitted by later distraught false accusers to be just that – false. They admit that they committed these vile abuse crimes to abuse and manipulate THEIR male victims… That could never happen, right? Our prosecutors WOULD care, right?

    Yet, no redress from our prosecutors and AG’s here either. What you don’t oppose, you support. It’s a felony to make false abuse and rape allegations, yet our prosecutors support it and refuse to denounce it or prosecute this wave of crime. Another answer some prosecutors’ offices give for doing this goes something like, “Very few female victims ever lie, your stats are out of whack, you’re just quoting wild propaganda about women lying…” “Women don’t pretend to be victims, they can only BE victims and accused men can only BE perpetrators…”

    They ramrod Alice in Wonderland Justice – pass the sentence first and latter create and find “evidence” to support a verdict to match the sentence already given. “If a woman says she is a victim we must believe her and prosecute to the full extent of the law.” “To not believe her is to further abuse her…” “If we were to prosecute known and proven false accusers (women) the real victims (women only…) would stop reporting abuse and rape for fear of being prosecuted…” “We can’t prove any of the very few false abuse and rape allegations were made with malicious, false intent to defraud anyway…” Now, who is really defrauding whom here anyway?

    Yet, 85% of restraining and protective orders issued for female “victims” are admitted by the women themselves to not involve any abuse (!!! they are actually the predators themselves, yet the only protected ones), at least not any abuse committed on their male partner’s part. False allegations ARE abuse, making up 85% of abuse allegations which are drama and criminal abuse used to manipulate and get what they want. Who is that abusing, besides the system which promotes and rewards them for doing this in the first place? This makes money, loads of money, for this system gone against the people. Why prosecute your partners in crime??? Why would they make any rash moves to take away such a big money-maker for themselves and all their buddies in crime?

    Maybe you just can’t get justice or your fair day in court on any of this unless you are very lucky and or have lots of money to pay homage to the “Justice” Gods… I hear of partial justice on part of these matters once in a while though. To suggest real and complete justice is equally available and not for sale is simply a joke, though our prosecutors and AG’s suggest we try to obtain justice through their mess anyway. They know you can’t bust them to get real justice when they are the real perps holding all the cards today anyway.

    When it is so well documented that so many prosecutors and AG’s across the nation support all of this criminal activity, it can only make you wonder what else they might be up to.

    Oh, and, Happy 4th of July General Shurtleff, and your Cache County Assistant AG whom so many likewise complain about for the same reasons.

    I’ve seen too many law students come to support the justice rhetoric and corruptness Mr. Grover now subscribes to, touting the “fact” that you can still get justice in court by simply following the steps that “won’t cost you anything…” “Justice is our basic right.” No, “Justice is the most costly of all commodities when organized crime takes it over.” That’s the effect of brainwashing. Justice is not free, for sure. You pay homage to the “justice Gods or their wrath WILL thunder donw upon you mere ants. But I do agree with much of the other points Tom Grover has made over the years. Just not on his comments as a whole this time.

  7. the porq says:

    “He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.”

    – United States Declaration of Independence

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